tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post5565964512988247728..comments2024-03-24T23:21:24.747-04:00Comments on Gothridge Manor: Settings or Rules or Both and Why Not, Another GiveawayGothridge Manorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11371740532802642972noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-14625510211554802992015-05-22T10:29:15.320-04:002015-05-22T10:29:15.320-04:00I think the future is in combination rules/setting...I think the future is in combination rules/settings or genre, such White Star, Crypts & Things, Warriors of the Red Planet, Scarlet Heroes, etc. I love the creativity so much, I'm considering staking my own claim: <br /><br />http://unto-the-breach.blogspot.com/2015/05/calling-dibs-on-those-damn-dirty-apes.htmlAnthony Simeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312134763577949405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-84321651636140227792015-05-22T10:22:49.562-04:002015-05-22T10:22:49.562-04:00I myself prefer setting and adventure material whi...I myself prefer setting and adventure material which I can drop into any rule set I feel like using. I tend to avoid products which are restricted by the very rules which surround them. After playing 30+ years of RPGs I’m always looking for ways to improve things, to be a constant student but not to reinvent the wheel. Therefore inspirational material is far more valuable to me for the various campaigns I run. I don’t need an off the shelf product that tells me what to do cradle to grave. The former may have appeal to someone new to the hobby and that is understandable.Grand DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09300718024070553749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-49500015773337503342015-05-22T08:40:48.669-04:002015-05-22T08:40:48.669-04:00I play Pathfinder and I can tell you that Less is ...I play Pathfinder and I can tell you that Less is More. That said, I can't imagine playing White Star (for instance) without More Rules. So I guess I agree with the prevailing sentiment. Give me a solid foundation and I will build a Game. So whether is Far Away Land or Deep Carbon - there are take away pieces (rules or setting) that end up in my game.Dithering Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10320912576947632933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-56392969415221508622015-05-22T07:38:48.866-04:002015-05-22T07:38:48.866-04:00I like to see innovation in both, but either one i...I like to see innovation in both, but either one is fine, in a fan project. In a project that's being sold as a new game, it really ought to be in both.Mike Monacohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11474135378521139178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-65925871846446225652015-05-22T02:30:54.549-04:002015-05-22T02:30:54.549-04:00I want system more than setting, but I give away s...I want system more than setting, but I give away setting more than system.<br /><br />I am eternally in a quest to perfect D&D. I fully believe that someone smarter than me will craft encumbrance rules of such elegance that they will make me cry tears of joy. So I love reading mechanics or musings on mechanics.<br /><br />In this age of publisher and lulu I am happy to say I made my own “D&D mine” a system embodies what I want in a fantasy RPG. I can now hand my players a copy of a shiny rule book or send them a PDF and start a game as a DM that is recognizable, but unique to my style. <br /><br />I think I have some clever mechanics; I particularly like how I handle clerical magic. Clerical magic uses a modified spell points system with a semi random element. Clerics of different faith use different dice to determine spell point costs. I have detailed 10 faiths, each with a unique spell list and restrictions to ensure that clerics of different religions are district. By doing so I have created an implied setting, one that ties to my home brew campaign. <br /><br />I offer three of these faiths for free on Drivethrurpg as print and fold zines (one or two more hopefully by this summer but work has been brutal lately). Despite these being offered more to showcase a mechanic I think they instead come off more as setting. <br /><br />In the end I feel hypocritical, giving more setting than system.<br /><br />All that being said the best setting is adventures. I buy more adventures than anything else. soooo a free adventure would be great, pick me. <br />sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-73332794351447583152015-05-22T01:13:03.424-04:002015-05-22T01:13:03.424-04:00Once you get outside the mechanics, and the mechan...Once you get outside the mechanics, and the mechanics of all the OSR games are similar enough that they are all effectively interchangable (we even successfully played a game once with a dozen players all using different rule sets), the rules effectively exist as worked examples for how to apply those mechanics to get the play you want.<br /><br />That's the great benefit of different rule sets - ideally they show us how to play the game differently. So one rule set might provide the opportunity for dark and gritty murderhoboing, while another might provide the opportunity for glorious heroics. The mechanisms might be very similar, but how they are applied will generally be completely different.<br /><br />For me this is inescapably wrapped up in setting as well. I would say that the best games have rules that apply directly to the setting, but in actual fact all games have rules that apply to the setting. It's just for the vast majority of the OSR clones their default setting is something called "D&D." [Whatever that actually is, although it does seem to have some common tropes. =9) ]<br /><br />One game I particularly enjoy is _Torg_, which has a rather simple mechanic at its heart. It then goes through over two dozen volumes describing rules for applying this mechanism to a wide variety of situations, from souping up a pulp hero's car, to creating an occult ritual to slay a werewolf, to casting a magic spell, to hacking the Godnet, to convincing someone to do something, to hitting someone with sword or laser pistol. Each of the genre realities in this game play quite differently because the rules apply the mechanism in different ways. [And have the desirable effect of actually forcing the players to approach the settings in the appropriate way for the genre of the setting.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-78075059764208456082015-05-21T23:41:49.166-04:002015-05-21T23:41:49.166-04:00Like others have said, it seems to start with a co...Like others have said, it seems to start with a couple of new homebrew monsters and maybe a class to deal with those monsters. Before long, there are rules about "Turning Clockworks" or rulings about Lightning Bolts as EMPs.<br /><br />As game sessions pile up, the notes, rulings, anecdotes, and massive soda-induced scribblings coalesce into a setting.<br /><br />I go buy the setting (or massively drool over it) and read it like a work of fiction. I take a rule or two, the monsters, and maybe a class and unleash them on an unsuspecting group.<br /><br />Much fun is had by all.<br /><br />I love White Star and I bought it specifically as a ruleset. Having Sci-Fi adventures based on S&W is a great idea. Still, I will most likely end up using it to "spice up" my existing game. Specifically, I plan to use the spaceship combat system as my aerial combat system.<br /><br />Heaven help me, I may even end up making Spelljammer for S&W thanks to White Star. The cycle continues.<br /><br />Not sure that there's really a good way to separate a full setting from a ruleset. A Spelljammer clone would have all kinds of rules in it, even if they were copied almost verbatim from other OGL games.<br /><br />Anyway, that's my two cents.sycarionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13741233143540350684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-80194881463964377262015-05-21T23:36:59.039-04:002015-05-21T23:36:59.039-04:00Setting and rules interact with each other, I thin...Setting and rules interact with each other, I think. While it is certainly true that a Referee with a strong image of the setting will alter or interpret the rules in a way that supports the setting, it remains true that those alterations and interpretations are changes to the rules, just "written" by the Referee instead of the nominal game designer.<br /><br />On the other hand, it is precisely those house rules and interpretations that undermine the arguments of the people who emphasize that "System Matters". At the table, distinctions of system only matter in how much the Referee and other players appreciate the nuances of the game.<br /><br />On the third hand, though, there are matters of flavor. Greyhawk run under AD&D will "feel" one way, but run using GURPS (or TWERPS!) will give another approach, and to run it using Toon (using, probably, the Dungeons & Toons rules) will be something else again. Imagine trying to run Star Trek using AD&D 1E RAW. Even with significant house rules, it's going to be rather different in feel and tone than the FASA or LUG Star Trek rules.<br /><br />What was I writing about again? I seem to have meandered. Anyway, there's a third S&W option, <i>Swords & Wizardry: White Box</i>, which is quite different than either Core or Complete.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-71629284044344440832015-05-21T23:28:22.190-04:002015-05-21T23:28:22.190-04:00Neither new rules nor new settings appeal to me mu...Neither new rules nor new settings appeal to me much these days. I have little time to play, and so prefer to stick with the rules and settings I know well. What I look for are new scenarios that can be dropped into my existing game with little trouble. One thing that I love about the OSR is the easy compatibility that most of the material has because it is built on well established rulesets and settings that were widely published and played with by legions of budding role players back in the day. If you deviate too far from this common "language" of play in the creation of a rule set or setting, I think it could be fair to question if that item really is a part of the OSR.Godzilla Geekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02885342716974135384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-83051036714046875772015-05-21T23:18:57.291-04:002015-05-21T23:18:57.291-04:00It's all about settings, or more generally, co...It's all about settings, or more generally, content for me. I don't need another ruleset - we already have 0e/BX/1e for simple rulesets that don't imply that much about a setting. They might be mostly fantasy-based, but that's probably just because there is no generic OSR setting (that I know of) that doesn't include the mechanics without also including content like monsters, spells, classes, etc.<br /><br />If you don't like the simple mechanics of 0e/BX/1e or clones, then you have more complicated ones like the Hero System, or D20/Pathfinder or others - not sure if we need another set of mechanics or not. Maybe the cinematic/story RPGs (I just haven't played them) like Fate, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, etc. are another category - I'm just not that familiar with them.<br /><br />So, don't give me another brand-new or incompatible ruleset. Instead, give me interesting settings, monsters, items, content, etc. - whether that's fantasy, or sci-fi, or something else - that doesn't imply that much about the underlying system - then that's stuff I can use everywhere, and it can be fun to just read.<br /><br />Note that this doesn't mean that the 'content' might say that there are only these specific races (but nothing standard like elves, etc.), and these specific spells, and these monsters - might be nothing like D&D or PF or whatever. That's not 'ruleset' to me - that's content for the setting. I haven't played Ponyfinder, but assume it's very different from stock Pathfinder.<br /><br />Can setting be completely independent from ruleset/mechanics? Well, not really. If the setting is high mortality - you probably want a simple system with simple character generation - nobody wants to spend 2 hours creating a character to see it die right away, but not a big deal if chargen takes a minute or two to get started.<br /><br />Modern systems might need more skills and less 'classes' to make sense - so maybe you lean away from the super simple systems for that since too much may have to be made up on the fly, and that might frustrate players (but maybe White Star proves this wrong? I haven't played it yet) Cinematic settings might need something like Fate to work well.<br /><br />Again, I want settings - at least start by tying them to a system that fits some basic style elements (high mortality, cinematic, etc.) - and maybe let 3rd parties provide the conversions to specific systems like PF, S&W, Hero, Runequest, whatever. Just don't invent a new set of mechanics unless you really have thought of something nobody else has.<br /><br />Erik Talvolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02782111222980129472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-79481898526940073372015-05-21T22:50:13.960-04:002015-05-21T22:50:13.960-04:00As I said at the Tavern, I just don't think it...As I said at the Tavern, I just don't think it's about either. There's room for more rules sets and new settings, but the main thing is the scenarios (modules). If EPT was a singular achievement, possible only due to Barker's unique psychology and life - so be it. But definitive adventures like the Tomb of Horrors are something that every generation of gamers deserves.Derrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02139619999533346131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-80644685512922396172015-05-21T22:48:18.899-04:002015-05-21T22:48:18.899-04:00My two coppers is that innovation should be embrac...My two coppers is that innovation should be embraced however it is found, be it clever rules or shiny new settings. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12006967040278333739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-87122092278485852412015-05-21T18:53:07.560-04:002015-05-21T18:53:07.560-04:00I think making a setting develops it own house rul...I think making a setting develops it own house rules and then you have a new ruleset. Most new setting gs come with a new race, monsters, class. It's the setting that develops the rules set and defines it to me. I still get new rule sets but I always fall back to a couple or three and tweet them. So settings is what I like more but I get a little out of bothAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164338064534438655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-16312403054865953402015-05-21T18:52:53.267-04:002015-05-21T18:52:53.267-04:00I think making a setting develops it own house rul...I think making a setting develops it own house rules and then you have a new ruleset. Most new setting gs come with a new race, monsters, class. It's the setting that develops the rules set and defines it to me. I still get new rule sets but I always fall back to a couple or three and tweet them. So settings is what I like more but I get a little out of bothAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164338064534438655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-36206880683400893292015-05-21T17:01:12.975-04:002015-05-21T17:01:12.975-04:00For me, it's more about settings. Although co...For me, it's more about settings. Although commercial settings, I take and cherry pick parts and ideas from to use as I please, since I seldom run anything exactly as written (keeps my players on their toes :D)Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04689573676358567953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-57390935469701833432015-05-21T16:21:31.127-04:002015-05-21T16:21:31.127-04:00Also charging for rulesets that are 80% plus 1980&...Also charging for rulesets that are 80% plus 1980's D&D is bad mojo, or should be. I mean charge for the book as artifacts, but the PDF - better to give that away and maybe charge for setting.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-71933520479960049912015-05-21T16:18:06.850-04:002015-05-21T16:18:06.850-04:00Through a rather ugly series of play-testing fiasc...Through a rather ugly series of play-testing fiascoes I've discovered something about setting v. rule set. I think it's a bit like mind body dualism, that is it's a useful distinction, but ultimately breaks down in practice if applied strictly.<br /><br />Setting isn't just fluff, evocative description and such. One of the key elements to setting is feel and play mechanics have a lot to do with it. Let me give you an example if this isn't making sense. Now I've described my Apollyon setting as "weird fantasy survival horror" and certainly the world is set up where the characters are more rats in the walls then heroes bestriding the universe. At least that's the intention, but when I ran it as a flailsnails game using the OSR's favorite B/X rule-set characters could behave more like fantasy heroes then skulking scavengers and survive.<br /><br />Yes high lethality and environmental danger can be obtained with stronger enemies, more damaging traps and various mechanical fixes, but ultimately doing this results in less streamlined play then simply changing the ruleset to become more dangerous.<br /><br />Mortality, the ease of successful action, the nature of spell casting, skill use (the distinction between 5E style skills for most character actions and 1e limited skills for specialized character actions) all have an effect on play all effect setting. Another example - I'm looking at a DCC module and it has all these DC tests for spotting things like a loose slope of rock which if successful presents no danger. That makes it a different game (character focused?) then one where a cautious player who says "I examine the rock slope" automatically discovers the peril, but then has to figure out how to negotiate it through player skill. <br /><br />To me then, creators making settings are likely to be making rules, or modifying them if they are really making settings, and vice-versa. There is nothing exciting to me about adding rules for the sake of it, that way leads to the mess that is the WOTC/Pathfinder default world - an overripe slurry of special snowflake classes, complex rule variants everywhere and a world without distinctive flavor. Likewise a setting that sets up one kind of world, but then leaves itself with default rules, might be interesting, but it's less interesting then one that has some rules that support it.Gus Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14872819206286105195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-85639387363903672452015-05-21T16:06:43.934-04:002015-05-21T16:06:43.934-04:00I wish we could +1 some of these responses - all g...I wish we could +1 some of these responses - all great here!Andy Actionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11230751305411973866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-31942154629562312852015-05-21T15:50:03.313-04:002015-05-21T15:50:03.313-04:00I agree. I love reading new systems and taking lit...I agree. I love reading new systems and taking little bits and pieces of them. My Swords and Wizardry campaign is an amorphous blob of S&W complete, DCC, OSRIC, and too many zines. Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02968044374664184594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-53055086591596072762015-05-21T15:49:34.037-04:002015-05-21T15:49:34.037-04:00It depends? A fair number of the books/games in m...It depends? A fair number of the books/games in my normal to-go GMing kit are of the themed toolkit variety: Staws Without Number, Red Tide, Vornheim in particular - books where I'm given rules to run by, a few strong themes to hang my ideas on and tools to spin those ideas out into campaigns. Implied or semi-explicit settings, coupled with the explicit resources to expand upon them, are what I get the most use out of and probably my favorite thing to have come from the OSR within recent years. It's that extra bit of "here's the setting, and here's how you build stuff within it" that sets my creative wheels turning. <br /><br />On the other hand, it's rare for me to buy a ruleset for the rules: I'll take ideas and mine them for stuff when I come across it but it's the setting or playstyle being pitched by the game or splatbook that garners my interest and makes me care. I'm more likely to buy a straight, systemless setting book than I am to buy a straight, setting-less rulebook (which, sadly, is why White Star has been dropping from my 'Must Have' list to 'Maybe, when I catch a sale'), if that makes any sense.Cirlothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04808105881974707273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-56352184141776064102015-05-21T15:13:03.613-04:002015-05-21T15:13:03.613-04:00I like free things and I cannot lie
You other blog...I like free things and I cannot lie<br />You other bloggers can't deny<br />That when a blogger has something and wants to give it away <br />you say 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey. DMWieghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03682249561077936507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-65994953516642773172015-05-21T14:34:26.577-04:002015-05-21T14:34:26.577-04:00Some rulesets are inspiring; when I first came acr...Some rulesets are inspiring; when I first came across Sword & Backpack I was immediately in love with how the rules were presented and affected the setting. It was a kind of Adventure Time feel with a lot less yelling. My brain was on fire with treasure maps and quirky bad guys like librarians and trolls who were more greedy than they were hungry. The rules are perfect for the setting; everyone fights and it is a punk rock thing, not as serious thing.<br /><br />But the OSR rulesets I play now are in no way inspiring to me, not really. Not in the same way, anyways. At the end of the day, most rulesets accomplish the same thing: there is a contest and then we roll some dice to see how it works out. What IS inspiring to me, are the settings that brazenly walk out of the OSR's vagina, all screaming and covered in a creative goop and not scared of anything. My entrance into the community was marked less by being in love with Labyrinth Lord rules (i bought those books because they seemed to be industry standard) but because I wandered into Middenmurk and Goblin Punch and Last Gasp, staring at the walls like a man struck dumb. Everything was so influential and beautiful. Arnold K's druids really pushed me over the cliff. "You mean I can play this class of anarchic geomancers with these, some, or any rules? Sold"<br /><br />If we separate idealistic and tiny mechanic from the rules, then things change a bit. I love the small and simple mechanics that people create, but those ideas infiltrate our brains and nudge out rules that were there before and maybe we don't even notice. They are innovative and inspiring but I don't think they define the community the way setting does. Everyone has their own rules.<br /><br />Rules are cool and small mechanic invention is quirky and fun, sure. Wonder & Wickedness presents new rules for magic but really why I love that book is because it sweeps out the blasé and tested idea of a regular magic user, and drops someone into your game with a closer connection to the actual magic. The setting is enhanced because the rules are removed and there is more room to elbow around. Now my setting, my world, doesn't have magic users cowering behind the sword guy simply to gain XP to get new spells, she is on the front line fucking shit up because she is already good at magic.<br /><br />What I am meandering around is that the settings are what define the OSR innovation for me, and niche mechanic is like using celery salt on your food instead of regular salt. It adds a hint of flavor to the meal, but in compliment to the setting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17653883050087688756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-67814186605431871122015-05-21T14:22:20.843-04:002015-05-21T14:22:20.843-04:00Ps. I guess my vote/opinion therefore is "rul...Ps. I guess my vote/opinion therefore is "rules subsets that, when tacked on appropriately, flesh out both the game and the implied game world." <br />Not sure if that counts or is a cop out - but it doesn't matter, I already own your brilliant Starter Adventures HC.<br />-=AAndy Actionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11230751305411973866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-81490692287606095962015-05-21T13:27:08.999-04:002015-05-21T13:27:08.999-04:00I think setting should be reinforced by the rule s...I think setting should be reinforced by the rule system used for it. Not sure if that helps, but even when playing an established system, I tinker around the edges to shape it to match the setting I am GMing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1954394848487110923.post-69374681097680721462015-05-21T13:26:57.997-04:002015-05-21T13:26:57.997-04:00Ugh, don't make me choose - but in the spirit ...Ugh, don't make me choose - but in the spirit of the original writers, as well as the OSR hive-mind... the rules are there to provide a framework and guidelines for game master in his adjudication of the game. They don't cover everything - certainly everyone like s to tweak the rules or add to cover conditions or cases. <br /><br />That said, the setting is the thing. It's where we play- it influences the atmosphere and style of play - are we going Arthurian, Tolkein, weird, mixed? How does this shape the characters, the encounters, the environment?Vance Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03911245780875316627noreply@blogger.com