Interview with Bob Liddil : Part 1

I discovered Bob about 20 years ago when I bought Apothecary on the Street of Dreams. It's been a pleasure to learn about his history with gaming and his trials of publishing. Here is Part 1 of the interview with Bob. I hope you enjoy.

SHORTS: Everyone has an initiation or discovery story about how they got into gaming. How did you discover gaming?

LIDDIL: It literally happened on a “dark and stormy night” back in 1977 or so. My friend Jack Powers invited me over to his house for a “snow storm and popcorn party.” I was one of a party of 6 players he introduced to this neat new game called “Tunnels and Trolls.” It was the most fun I’d had in a really long time and it was a great intellectual exercise as well. That night, more than two feet of snow fell on Southeastern Ohio, paralyzing the roads, so basically we slaughtered Orcs until 3AM and then crashed on whatever furniture we could find.

At that point, having spent the entire night trying to keep Damian The Dangerous alive in the roadways and dungeons of “The World” I was totally hooked. Together, we wrote a classic fantasy adventure story, albeit orally, and for me, as an already budding writer, that was just the coolest thing ever.

Next morning, we were awakened by a car crashing into the side of Jack’s house that took out part of the back porch and kitchen. It skidded on the snow and came right into the building. Ironically, Damian had gotten himself trapped on a runaway wagon in the game the night before and almost got his 3x5 card torn in half. He and I both lived in perilous times


SHORTS: Independent publishing is prevalent in the gaming industry now, but back when you published “Griswald Grimm's Little Shop of Poisons and Potions” in 1988 what obstacles did you need to overcome?

LIDDIL:In the very beginning when Dimensions and Doors, Castles and Kingdoms and Demons and Notmen, my first three were published, only two kinds of typesetting existed. Professional typesetting was messy, expensive and cumbersome. Or one could use an IBM Selectric for the different type fonts of the day.

By the time LSPP came out, personal computer typesetting was coming of age and I was learning how to use PageMaker. Probably the biggest obstacle on the first book was just the physical process of assembling the book. To save money, Dallas Nillsen, my partner in Pandora’s Treasures, threw a “collating party” at her house in Logan, Utah. Once collated, the print shop wire bound them and they were ready to go. It really wasn’t much of a hassle for me, because she handled everything other than the actual typography and writing.

In the late 80’s the single most difficult obstacle to overcome had to be the cost of printing. Analog printing is inefficient on “short runs” and not cost effective at all. The cost of a single unit in a 1000 unit run was typically more than $5 per book. Since the wholesale price to a distributor typically seldom exceeded $6.00 the profit margin was usually a wash.

Only selling the book at retail at conventions allowed me to sell it at all. Distributors seldom bought more than 25 at a time so I would say that getting the finished product into the hands of the gamer was my biggest obstacle, that and the fact that Dragon Magazine wouldn’t let me advertise because of the title. TSR were in deep conflict with the Christian Right at the time and the words “Poisons and Potions” were so inflammatory that the book was actually banned by the Wizards of the North!

Coming up with the formulas was easy. I am a very irreverent game master and a great believer in “look before you touch.” I play tested the poisons and potions at a game convention in Salt Lake City in an “ancient apothecary dungeon” and killed virtually every gamer in attendance. The days of drink anything and watch what happens pretty much ended that weekend for those kids.

It still makes me laugh to remember that 13 hour-long game during which I must have signed five dozen “Certificates of Death,” a product of mine in the late 1980's.


SHORTS: Your products from 20 years ago reflect a lot of what's going on in gaming today, being self-published and system neutral supplements. What was the response then to your books being system neutral?

LIDDIL: System neutrality was a necessity during the decades of the 70’s thru 90’s. Gary Gygax and TSR would sue you where you stood for merely mentioning D&D compatibility specifically, where Rick Loomis encouraged T&T fans to “do their thing,” and Steve Jackson was cool as ice every time someone mentioned GURPS.

I always believed that the heart of role-playing was in the storytelling. That’s where my emphasis pointed. Also, having been introduced to T&T prior to D&D, I acquired that sort of “anti-establishment” rebellion attitude right off the bat.

System neutrality the way I published, with no real rule set and compatible with every single rule set was a scarcity. Most Kitchen Table Publishers of my era were broke, stayed broke or went broke.

Lou Zocchi and Gamescience were the obvious exception, and Steve Jackson as well.

You can find more information in Part 2 of the interview soon, but if you just can't wait head over to Digitropolis where Bob makes his home on the web.

Unearthing a Treasure

I dug through some of my gaming things and unearthed a booklet I hadn't seen in years; Apothecary on the Street of Dreams (AotSoD) written by Bob Liddil. The red cover has a sketch of a skull mortar and bone pestle that demands attention. When I saw it started with a short story, I groaned. For some reason game fiction is lousy most of the time. But I was happy to discover Bob Liddil writes a good story.

Part 1 is titled 'Tales'. It is a single story that provides background of the sinister mind that created the magics in Part 2. Griswald Grimm provides 30 interesting concoctions in Part 2. Each concoction is given a full page of detail including suggested prices and read the special properties section because some of these salves, ointments, or potions have some interesting side effects.

What I like about AotSoD is it gives the art of alchemy a personality. It's not just a simple you find two healing potions. There is a potency and danger in Griswald Grimm's designs. It gives depth to a part of the game that is often glossed over.

Part 3 is another story of Griswald Grimm and his apprentice Fleet O' Foot.

The final section, although it is not labeled Part 4, but rather The Karnuth Manuscripts. This is probably my favorite section because it describes books that contain powerful formulas. One manuscript teaches non-magic user how to throw I fireball and is noted to have been banned by the Wizard's Guild National Committee. Griswald even includes his own book in there (AotSoD). This is a great resource to make libraries more interesting.

The other feature of this book that I like is it is system neutral. There are no giant stat blocks wasting precious space, just a lot of good writing and fun. If you are a collector or need something to jazz up the alchemical side of your game Bob Liddil has already come up with some great ideas. And since my rediscovery of his book I will be implementing some of the ideas into my campaign.

Here is a link to Bob Liddil's Digitropolis webpage.

A Kinda New Look at Mr. Doppelganger

Ah, the doppelganger, one of my favorite critters in the Monster Manual. A nasty enemy who can create gobs of paranoia within the party. I took the time to flesh out their abilities and psychology for an adventure Dwayne and I wrote. There is nothing earth shattering or reinventing going on here, just my extrapolation on well known abilities and then I throw in a little of my own flavor to make it a more unique experience when my players encounter them. That was my intent at least. And maybe there will be something you can use in your campaign. The stats are arbitrary numbers and I used a system neutral approach to present the rules.

Doppelgangers are a feared race because they can alter their form to match any humanoid creature within 50% of their mass. Their transformation power is nearly instantaneous. Coupled with their frightening ability to read minds makes them a threat to every civilized race. Doppelgangers can send information, both verbal and images, instantly. Their range limit for full communication is 500 yards, but can deliver pieces of non-verbal information up to 1000 yards. Doppelgangers cannot be contacted while sleeping or critically injured.

A person needs to be in sight for a doppelganger to read their mind. When a doppelganger attempts to read the mind of a player, a contest between the player’s intelligence (and any bonuses or penalties that the DM sees fit) vs. the doppelgangers skill level should be rolled. If the player wins he will know someone is prying into his thoughts and can make a resist roll. A resist roll is the same as above. Detecting the attempt will not give the player insight into who tried to read his mind unless a critical success is rolled.

In combat doppelgangers use their mind reading to their advantage. They can anticipate attacks and coordinate with other doppelgangers. This gives them a bonus +2 to hit and defense.

Doppelgangers prefer to stalk their victim before killing. They gather as much information as they can before taking the place of their target. They work in small groups to assist one another and to minimize detection. All doppelgangers are skilled at digging and camouflaging the graves of their victims. Doppelgangers feel no remorse when they kill. They kill to survive, as a hunter kills a deer.

Alcohol cripples a doppelganger’s mind reading and shape shifting ability. It acts as a poison in their system, causing extreme pain. In such a state they are unable to focus on the form they have taken and shift between their original form and other forms taken in the past. Alcohol blocks their mind reading and sending ability. Even after the alcohol has left their system they are disoriented for a few days. Because of this weakness and the need to blend into communities doppelgangers have become experts in pretending to drink and be drunk. A player that actively observes the behavior of a doppelganger can make an intelligence roll to detect its deception.

Doppelgangers work together to improve the situation of the group. They travel in groups of twelve or less fearing more would make them easier to detect. And all doppelgangers are aware that if they are discovered they would be slaughtered.