Pantheons are a critical part of any game. You have an entire class dedicated to them, sipping at their powers to push their cause forward...but how many cleric in game do that? How many times during a game does a cleric on behalf of their deity? Are they plundering a goblin warren for the glory of their god or to get better equipment?
Many times a cleric will tithe some of their loot, but not often. Some will build temples, but lets face it, that temple is more a monument for them than the god they worship. The acolytes that are more minion than devotee.
So all you GMs out there, how do you handle a cleric's responsibility to their god? Time has caught me up and I need to go to work. Looking forward to your answers. Have a great Friday.
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I left a a comment on Drawings & Dragons' post Chaos Points explaining how in my campaign you need to gain reputation points for the gods to grant you spells.
ReplyDeleteI had a couple of blog posts up about this with regards to alignment which turned into a "creeds and tenets" discussion. The bottom line is each deity/religion has tenets that the cleric must follow. They're pretty clear so that if the cleric doesn't follow them, they know it. We haven't worked up specific tithes yet (that's coming...) but in order to do some things, the clerics must cast spells in their temple. To create scrolls, clerics have to be in a consecrated/holy place to their religion.
ReplyDeleteExcellent Alex and Mike, when I get home I'll give them a look. Been thinking more about this of late and just scouring for some ideas to hang my hat on.
ReplyDeleteGreat post and comments. I have been thinking about this too and get bogged down in the non-essential details (too much theological training for my own good, I suppose). Thanks!
ReplyDeleteThis has been bugging me for a long time - how to encourage players to actually play the cleric, without adding too much complexity to my job as DM. A piety point system with penalties (such as loss of xp's) seems like a solution, but it's more bookkeeping. Withholding spells is the obvious one, but you need to be able to show the player exactly why. I'm waiting for a light bulb moment.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes down to it, I have a high priest come visit. If that doesn't work, I bring down a heavenly messenger. Then I start making it hurt - Oh, you wanted spells? Too bad, so sad.
ReplyDeleteVery timely - I don't have a lot of time right now, but do plan to circle back Tim (or put something up at Dreams in the Lich House).
ReplyDeleteMy first thought is to use the DDG guidelines on which spell levels are given out by servants of the deity - even a wayward cleric could still do the low level spells. But I feel like a fuller answer needs some research, see if the great one addressed it in DMG or if it was in DDG, as well.
I'm with Austrodavicus, I haven't wanted to be Piety Cop.
After my last 4e game, I'll never look at clerics the same. In the setting, most of the population had been wiped out - so gods had far fewer followers. As a consequence, the gods had less power, but also more time. This meant personal attention for every follower.
ReplyDeleteThe paladin had regular conversations with his god. They chatted like pals and did each other favors without expecting anything in return. The cleric's relationship with his goddess was more formal, and they kept close track of who owed whom what.
Other party members ended up with their own relationships with deities, and all of these things influenced the party's decision making a whole lot. When the paladin's god is ticked at the cleric's goddess and the warlock follows a goddess who doesn't particularly like either of them, it makes life interesting.
In my games, when it comes to downtime and leveling up, the Cleric should just automatically tithe and "lose" that loot without concern for how they actually tithed. They can roleplay it out or whatever if they want, but I make them remove the tithe immediately between adventures or during after-adventure play. The Cleric needs to take time for prayer and reflection, etc. and tithing is part of that... if you look at the actual origin of the tithe, it is "off of the top" of the "harvest" or whatever. A cleric needs to give the tithe first before any other personal uses of accumulated treasure are implemented.
ReplyDelete-Jeff
"DM Retro"
I played a cleric in a close pal's short-lived 3E game. I wrote up an original goddess who would grant eternal peace to those who followed her. So my targets were those with restless hearts and too much blood on their hands. The party pretty much told me to blow it out my ear, but the GM gave me a GMNPC to try and convert, based on roleplaying conversations. He was able to see the benefits and was starting to think about life in the priesthood when the group fell apart.
ReplyDeleteIn games that I run, I sort of figure out what kinds of goals the cleric should be striving for. I work hints into the game, and I sorta make little tick marks in my campaign notebook anytime the cleric does something noteworthy. That way I can tell at a glance whether his god's happy with him or mad at him. A mad god requires penance.
A great question.
ReplyDeleteI think through interaction with NPC clerics and the expectations from other non-cleric NPCs; plus the ultimate threat of loss of spells. Unless a heinous action, the loss of spells should be gradual.
http://retrorpg.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/my-top-5-classic-fantasy-adventures/
ReplyDeleteI tried my hand at it, also.
This was fun to do!
I work priests differently. Priest spells take Piety to cast. Piety is earned by doing priestly things. It can be stockpiled but you don't get a "daily allotment of healing". If you want to heal the fighter after that fight, you better have slain some heretics, built some shrines or converted some heathens.
ReplyDeletehttp://zzarchov.blogspot.com/2009/06/there-is-candy-at-bottom-of-this-post.html